The American manufacturer of the new pistols belonging to Canadas special forces claims the soldier wounded in an accidental discharge last fall was using the wrong holster for the weapon. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. Sig sculpted the rear of the frame shell to allow your hand a more comfortable, and higher, carry, with an extended beavertail. Bagnell said he thinks the discharges are due to both design and manufacturing flaws on SIGs part. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-iN4Wr8P_P2lGU6m2M5Rd8F6tVxyeeWdzleA_0eUoKjB0wER5wbVU_ouLj3uKCvLmUWhjIv2uHVC2R0Wv8Q9VgQ/messages/@.id==AMxkWSMoHX4bYSzMKA0AINojDH4/content/parts/@.id==2/refresh?appid=YMailNorrinLaunch&ymreqid=ae6c4f7d-acdd-ffa3-1c80-d70000011c00. That could happen easily. JAFO- Yes, tried both FCUs with this kit. I sent thousands of these rounds through Glocks, 1911s, 2011, PCC, Tanfo Stock 2. with no issues. Only issue with 320 was initially choking on first round when all 17 rounds were loaded in mag. Maybe. I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. Quit blaming cops or the military, these guns have a serious problem. They have hundreds of thousands of P320s in regular service now and, despite a search, we couldnt find a rash of reports of soldiers claiming their pistols are firing on their own. Not that the original was not good, but because it is a shell, they can do more. I'm hoping this was a fluke due to a really weak casing - if anyone has any other thoughts please share. rpm8300 The new trigger mechanism is less likely to fire without the trigger being pulled, making the P320 much safer to use. Both companies, instead, took to pro-gun industry forums to offer a rebuttal, giving no opportunity to answer questions. I carry one in my front pocket routinely. The Glock fails on both counts. Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. I have almost a hatred for Glocks but the one thing that they are is reliable. And the 320 has a very easy to replace extractor. Tried different ammo? His haste to avoid the embarrassment of his gun being seen on the floor turned the incident from a wardrobe malfunction (accidental exposure of a concealed weapon, probably just a reprimand from the OPR) into a negligent discharge (the gun being fired led to him personally getting fired!). But just the same- a gun going off from momentum? Post again when you buy a real gun that you can defend yourself with. From what I can tell, it has all the GEN II upgrades. Not just police in US had issues with sig p320. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This subject has two prongs; One is the negligence of those who have shot themselves with 320s through violations of Rule 2, the other the possible mechanical design failing of the gun. Thats like telling the cop you were only going 5 over, not 10. The tendency is for people to say "I've shot thousands of this load, and nothing has ever happened before." 3. As the round is stripped from the magazine it is pushed up the feed ramp and into the partially extracted round still hanging out the back of the barrel. Also some sport pistol at 132. U.S. lawsuits But they addinsult to injury by a"funneled" cut a good 1/8"-3/16" in from the chamber face. After watching a friend get killed by a Remington 700 by another friend and the ensuing fallout 31 years ago I decided that I didnt care if the P320 was fixed, it was getting sold. It was one of the first ones and was sent back as a voluntary upgrade. You clanging a bell that went silent years ago. Hes like the arrogant star QB on your favorite football teamyeah, you would never want to spend a weekend with him at the lake cabin, but your franchise would be little to nothing without him. The Defiant regardless of who is the captain. He wanted TTAG to convey that hes pro-Second Amendment. All those customers who paid $1600 now had a limited function paper weight. Display as a link instead, Have you ever put a handgun down with your palm in front of the muzzle? Yea, I already have the RA and the Fedex shipping label. Just as a follow up, it appears that one case separation was a fluke. If you need a Sig extractor for either a carbon steel or stainless steel slide model, check our parts pages first. USA. Having it as the ONLY trigger pull the weapon has seems (to me) clearly dangerous. I called Sig and the rep said the X5 is designed to do exactly that, blow out the extractor to save other vital parts,whenever there is an over pressure situation. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. Sig started out rough, but a lot of agencies have decided that their modular chassis system is the way of the future. When he opened the drawer the hinges pulled the Charters trigger. While this incident occurred months ago, this erroneous media report is driven by multiple sources, including our competitors, and coincides with the imminent release of other Canadian military and law enforcement tenders, indicating the timing of its release is an attempt to improperly influence the procurements, the statement said. No Warp core, just a quantum singularity, The engine was basically a dorm fridge. Yaaay! Had the issues where the round fired but the case failed to eject. If you aggressively load a too-long mag into the pistol that doesn't hard-stop on the grip frame, this WILL happen. It did not originally have this. TTAG talked to SIG Sauer about the P320 suits and the ABC reports. And have the dropping 320 go off? If yours doesn't look like that in some way, you probably have a problem that is going to need to involve Sig CS. When I got it back it was ammo fussy for about 600 rounds. It was a huge issue at one point because the company who they outsourced the extractor to went cheap. I believe it is the updated parts only because the grip module has a born on date of 10/2018. It has an unsafe takedown procedure that requires you to pull the trigger to get the slide off. The company didnt want to comment on any specific pending litigation for obvious reasons. Back in 2017, SIG instituted a voluntary upgrade program to replace the original production triggers with new enhanced triggers designed to fix the issue that we and others observed when the pistols were dropped onto hard surfaces. Who function tests their firearm 1) with a round in the chamber, and 2) when its pointed at an extremity? You may have a P220, .38 Super with a carbon steel slide. One was purchased new and the other was a CPO. He wasnt aware of it until contacted earlier this week by CBC News and suggested it was relevant in ongoing litigation in the U.S. We look forward to reviewing the incident in discovery in the United States, he said Friday. I mean hey, yelling about firearms preferences online is no more productive than discussing nerdy Star Trek stuff, is it? Profits over reliability and you end up with junk. The list is long proving gun manufactures were well aware of this problem now for 121 years yet they abandoned this when the Glock infested the gun market. If you cant get it working , call SIG and send it back. This is actually another new Sig p320 RX, besides the 2 sig blow outs last match[emoji13]Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. There were a lot of changes. I think he said that they replaced the extractor pin or spring or something, but not the extractor itself. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. But the reality is that the military has been using the Sig P320 for almost 5 years and they show no signs of changing. In stock. Some have suggested that this could have been aggravated by the lack of a trigger safety, as most other. Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. Because its flat out bull**it. three changes to the original design. Thanks. Look at the photos g macposted of the barrel and factory ammo shot in that barrel. Got a bad batch of WW ammo or I will discuss the solutions to all these problems and user reviews in this article. Too much MIM in that crap SIG, the old ones were great. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. They are being replaced with Glocks. brakes, remember? How many times does a pistol have to malfunction before you blame it? Theyre the only product that is not. Were not the only ones who have noticed the lawsuits. He was happy to find this post and that it confirmed that he felt the case support looked inadequate. Is it? In this article, you will find the fix to these problems. Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? It has not yet responded to the latest legal filing, and didnt respond to a request for comment. DND/CAF is not in a position at this stage in its investigation to offer insight into the potential causes because our investigation scope is broader than the technical aspect pertaining to the unintended discharge of the pistol.. There used to be a problem, which is why Sig fixed it. Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. As they should. Thanks, Jim. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. They mandate more discharges, with more property damage, more injuries, and more deaths. That's for the update. Trigger is lighter than the Glock, it took years of aggressive training to reach the point of acceptable discharges with the Glock. Its hard to say yet but with anything follow the basic safety rules. If none of the new extractor parts make a difference, I'll have no choice but to send it back to Sig.thankfully I'm still within the one year warranty period allowed with CPO guns. As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. "how long will it take to get my gun back?". My guess would be somehow you: 1. Make a gift to NHPR today for your chance to win a trip for 2 to Ireland! In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. Where is that defect now? Did you try your other FCU with the 9F kit? Clear editor. In 2017, a prominent online gun shop pulled the P320 from its shelves, citing its concern that the weapon could fire if dropped from the wrong angle. The Sig P320 XTen (bottom) has the same feel and general dimensions as the full-size 9mm P320 pistols (top). Display as a link instead, Additionally, you will find what the users currently experience with this product. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. Heres the version of the report that ran later that night, during ABCs Nightline program . The VIP screening with the meet and greet was like $600. Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. People of the Gun are probably familiar with the early problems the P320 had regarding drop safety. is the manual safety a kit you add? Result: Sig P320 goes off when dropped and shoots people. Problem persisted. UPDATE:We were just made aware of YouTuber BoomStick Tactical who produced this video the day before our post published. There is something that SIG addressed a while back. CBC News reached out to Sig Sauer and its Canadian distributor, M.D. SIG brought us into their testing facility today and demonstrated that three upgraded P320s were all functional and fired properly. When I received the gun, it appeared as if it was unfired, with wear apparent on the barrel or other corresponding areas to indicate the gun was even used. That is the point of most of the video at the end of the article. Will this issue get better or should I be contacting Sig? But it hardly indicts the P320 as a badly engineered weapon or that its worse than another brand. Features & Specifications of SIG P320 X5 Legion: SIG P320 X5 Legion Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. But I can't count the number of guys using n320 and 147s for minimal pf loads. Sent the old kit (as a complete pistol) off to Sig for warranty repair. I'm giving that a try. His annual qualification consisted of shooting 32 rounds. Especially since they farm it out to the lowest bidder. Firing Pin Retaining Pin, Spiral -250. . Same problems. Have you tried a different slide and barrel. Likewise, having a finger in the trigger-guard, or a clothing draw-string, or a retention strap, or some other object, when holstering the gun exonerates the maker, as the gun is firing with a trigger press of sufficient energy and stroke as designed. Im reading about a moron who wraps a loaded firearm in a cloth and stuff it in a gym bag, and other dumb behavior that tells me the weapon isnt the problem but the user. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. 1300324. Anyway my question for $600 would be: Did you have your 3rd wife killed? The Glocks lack of a manual safety has caused untold thousands of needless cripplings and death. 3) If the sear fails, there is the drop safety in the way of the striker. never got into the P320 It is to me a Range gun not a carry gun. There wasn't really a straight problem, with most problems having different circumstances/potentially different causes. Pasted as rich text. While good firearms training and practices among law enforcement officers is certainly the case much of the time, weve seen far too many instances over the years of un-safe or downright dangerous practices by allegedly highly trained individuals to apply that kind of blanket endorsement to all cops or alphabet agency employees. in Capitalvania. The chamber on the 320's is horribly unsupported and a questionable design in my opinion. Thats the same. I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. I too think its ammo related. Member. First I have no problem with the Mk 25 or any other Sig thats metal. Third, Glock has had problems, too. This is a great way to give your pistol a subtle, custom . I discovered a small crack in the chamber of an older model 226 several years ago, and the best they would do was offer a discount on a new barrel because I shot reloads. They have similar vertical sear engagement, but the M&P has more engagement width wise. The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. Guess it hasnt dawned on them that: 1. I continue to bet my life on them. Ejection problems can usually be traced to extractor problems. Combine this with the complacency that comes with handling a firearm over-and-over again as you holster and unholster a firearm throughout the day, its not surprising that many of these officers are saying it just went off as a negligent discharge can cost them their job if it lead to serious injury or property damage. Has anyone else had issues? Without a loser pays tort system, such abuse will go on and on. You arent a gunfighter, either. Pity that some of the most common reactions fall into two over simplistic categories: 1. LOL! A few Warbirds decloaking would make me very nervous if it wasnt sci-fi fantasy. Canadian soldier wounded by accidental discharge used wrong holster: SIG Sauer The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. It's a little disappointing because I was a huge fan. I have been purchasing and using Sig firearms exclusively for over 40 years. This gun had been voluntary upgraded. If it was so bad, why did the US Marines, who had the Glock, drop it in favor of the carry sized P320, the M18? What it likely means is that cops and other law enforcement officers carry and handle their guns far more often than the average Joe or Jane. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Oh, if you another thread reader asking Wheres the Sig/Glock bashing? This is the first time I have heard of the same happening with the subcompact. I still love my Sig so I really hope everything works out. My 3 year old 320C started exhibiting fail to extract problems a while back. Your previous content has been restored. Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. If there were a defect in 320's, it would be all over the web. These lawsuits ARE about SIG making defective weapons. The gun ran fine with brass, but as soon as I loaded her up with Tulammo, it began to choke bad again. Press J to jump to the feed. It alleges that Walter Collette, Jr., a police officer with the Somerville (Mass.) To give you an example of early self-propelled lawn mowers if you lost your grip on the handles the mower would not shut off and it would take off on its own right down the street all by itself. saw the video, doesnt explain how it bypasses striker pin safety. The most common problems with the SIG P320 AXG Scorpion are FTF issues, ejection and extractor problems, slide rattle issues and RSA issues.